Autism Annex: The STAR Autism Support Podcast

Hands-On Futures: Empowerment and Employment Through Skilled Trades

• STAR Autism Support • Season 4 • Episode 1

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TACT (Teaching the Autism Community Trades) is a Colorado-based nonprofit focused on empowering individuals with autism through education in the skilled trades.  Founder Danny Combs shares how TACT tackles the high unemployment rate in the autism community by equipping individuals with the skills needed for rewarding careers in fields that capitalize on their unique strengths.

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Johnandrew Slominski Welcome to this episode of the Autism Annex Podcast. I'm Johnandrew Slominski. Johnandrew Slominski We've spoken before on the podcast about the issues that individuals on the autism spectrum face in the job market. Johnandrew Slominski In fact, my guest on our last episode, Temple Grandin, makes a very strong case for education in the skilled trades as an important and often overlooked pathway toward employment. Johnandrew Slominski Estimates vary widely, but several studies suggest that in the US, the unemployment rate among adults with autism hovers around 40%, while other estimates indicate that in some locations, that number might be as high as 85%. Johnandrew Slominski My guest today is Danny Combs, founder of teaching the autism community trades, better known as TACT, based in Denver, Co. Johnandrew Slominski TACT works to solve that very problem. Johnandrew Slominski TACT was founded in 2016 and is a nonprofit that provides education in the trades to individuals with autism, equipping them with the skills for meaningful employment in fields that capitalize on their unique and individual strikes. Johnandrew Slominski Danny, I'm excited to learn more. Johnandrew Slominski Thanks so much for being here. Danny Combs Hey, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Johnandrew Slominski You took a pretty unusual pathway into this work. You were in the midst of a music career in Nashville when you picked up, moved to Colorado, and started this nonprofit to teach trades to people on the autism spectrum. Johnandrew Slominski That's quite a shift. Johnandrew Slominski Could you tell that story? Danny Combs Yeah, it's. It's a bit of an unusual path, perhaps one that not many folks would follow, and so, Danny Combs I’d say it's helpful to look at it in the overarching long term. Danny Combs So, I come from a family of trades. Danny Combs So, my great grandfather happened to be neighbors to a gentleman that started a company called Grumman that most people known as Northrop Grumman. Danny Combs A big aerospace company. And he was the real tradesfolk in the family. Danny Combs Mean he could fix anything. Danny Combs He was. Danny Combs And then my grandfather followed suit after the service in the Air Force became an engineer for Grumman and helped actually design the lunar module. Danny Combs And then my dad Danny Combs ended up becoming a general contractor and his degree was in civil engineering, became a general contractor.  And so naturally, then, here comes me being 4th generation trades and I said heck no. I don’t want to do this and so decided to run away to Nashville and become a professional musician Danny Combs And that's exactly what I did. Danny Combs And it ended up working out OK, you know, I was very fortunate that I got to work with some amazing people, Danny Combs meet some incredible people, and do some really fun things that paid the bills. And then my amazing son Dylan was born and if you're thinking musician Bob Dylan, yes. Danny Combs You would be correct. Danny Combs And you know, some of the things that we noticed that made Dylan extra special Danny Combs we discovered at Vanderbilt came to be called autism. Danny Combs And I would love to tell you that you know, Danny Combs The doctors tell you that your child is autistic. That I took itm Danny Combs you know, Danny Combs Very excitedly, but I... Danny Combs I... there was definitely a period where I was confused where I was far from, you know, the integrity of, you know, being that amazing dad. And at the end of the day, I started looking at all the things that my son could do and all the strengths that he did have. Danny Combs And I started seeing that, you know, this word, autism was not. Danny Combs This, you know, terrible. Danny Combs But first it was just like a literally a binder for any parent that has been told their child's autistic. They give you a book. Danny Combs When I say book, it's a 3-ring binder full of a bunch of pamphlets. At least that was my experience. Danny Combs And they say good luck. And when I discovered all the things that he could do, I started reframing my thinking and I started diving into research. Danny Combs How can I support my son? Danny Combs Not changing him, but embracing him for who he is and finding a way to really build up the things that he could do because he was six 6 1/2 before he could say, “Hello Dad, I love you,” but he could visualize and conceptualize these amazing things. Danny Combs And I was that dad wholet my son play with scissors. Danny Combs And so he would make all these incredible things. Danny Combs And so I started looking for, ironically, a non-profit or something that worked within the trades, my family background, that could support him and build him up. Danny Combs And I couldn't find anything. Danny Combs There was nothing. Danny Combs And so I ended up Danny Combs talking to Doctor Temple Grandin saying, Danny Combs I got this idea. Danny Combs What do you think? Danny Combs Should I do this. Danny Combs And she said, “Put down your guitar and go do it.” And that was, for whatever reason, the straw that broke the camel's back, that catalyst, that little push that I needed to get me over the ledge. Danny Combs And I had really good lawyers Danny Combs in New York from my music career. Danny Combs It ended up going and starting TACT and it just took off right away and it started as me. It was me teaching in the back of a truck. Danny Combs I’m a car guy. So, if you're going to, you know, do it, you do it right. Danny Combs The 58 Chevy on a police car frame Danny Combs With a 350 on 20s, and you know it's scooting along just fine. Danny Combs Of course, the first class we ever did was teaching instrument building, because there's still that, you know, musician in me. Danny Combs We taught ukuleles. Danny Combs And that was it.  That got it started and it started with getting kids excited and it's grown to, you know, this incredible employment transition program. Danny Combs We now have a new law that we got passed that created an entirely new public school designation. Danny Combs For not just TACT students, but all autistic and neurodivergent individuals across the state of Colorado to get vocational educational training that leads towards opportunity and that equality of opportunity that they haven't had previously. Danny Combs Now TACT, you know, serves thousands of students and all kinds of people from all over the country. We have a staff of around Danny Combs 25 in 19,000 square foot facility with all these corporate sponsors, it's really grown to be this amazing vessel and hub of the autism and neurodiversity communities. Danny Combs It’s pretty powerful, I think. Johnandrew Slominski So take us inside that hub. You have a unique teaching facility there in Denver. And although we can't see it on the podcast, I'd love for you to give us a tour. Johnandrew Slominski What's it like to walk into TACT? Danny Combs Yeah. So you know that it's a great thing and I like to preface this because it helps put in perspective just how incredible the transformation that was brought upon the building by the community.  We purchased with the help of an organization called the Urban Land Conservancy Danny Combs A 19,000 square foot facility in 2022. Danny Combs It was a facility called Accutube where they made stainless steel and vulcanized steel tubes, rubber tubes. Danny Combs It was gross.  It was nasty. Danny Combs The walls were coated with all kinds of stuff. Danny Combs It blew us away that when we did all these, you know, environmental tests, they didn't find every kind of terrible thing you could possibly imagine for a decade upon decade. Danny Combs So we purchased this in July of 22. Danny Combs We had been in a facility we were renting down by the Bronco Stadium previously, after we've gone from the truck to there. Danny Combs And we have so many partners now that hire our graduates over 60 of them, which is pretty powerful, Danny Combs that saw the value from a value proposition perspective, not from a charity perspective, but from a “these individuals are incredible assets to our organization” perspective that these businesses chipped in. Danny Combs Time, money, manpower, all kinds of resources and we are able to completely renovate a $1.5 million renovation on a 19,000 square foot facility in six months. Danny Combs That's including architectural permits. Everything. I'd like to put that in perspective because it shows just how involved the community is with tact. I think if that's pretty incredible Danny Combs to have Danny Combs that number of businesses that see the value in the autistic way of being. Danny Combs And so, when you first walk in, at first it's, you know, a gray building with fun yellow doors. You walk in and we have all these vintage classic cars. Danny Combs You see a 63 Chevy. You see the 58 Chevy. Danny Combs You see a 71 Volkswagen. Danny Combs The lobbies with reclaimed wood from the gentleman that builds all the buildings out West for like Google and all of the Silicon Valley folks donated all the reclaimed wood. And so you see all of this reclaimed wood in a 5000 square foot auto garage that it looks like Danny Combs A simulation shop. It looks just like an auto shop would look. 3 rotary lifts, engines everywhere from Toyota cars. Danny Combs Subaru that sponsor us, all of these tools, everything set up with the idea of universal design behind it to inherently create this incredibly welcoming and safe environment. Danny Combs And then as I go through the tour, we have tables that our students made themselves that they hang out with in the beginning. There's a color therapy / sensory room. Danny Combs A kitchen upstairs. Danny Combs There is 2 incredible tech. Danny Combs We have what we call tech for the trades, which is not every student ends up turning wrench. Danny Combs Just a reality. It's not going to be something for everybody. Danny Combs However, a lot of our community likes tech and we find that within the tech community they've often overlooked coming from a cyber, you know, IT perspective, design, architecture, engineering, that is a lot of times overlooked for our community because it seems like when you think autism and employment a lot Danny Combs of times it goes towards tech and finance. Danny Combs So we have a tech for trades part that we have CNC machines and 3D printers and lasers where they're designing, you know, kitchen cabinets. Danny Combs They’re designing widgets, that the things that, talking to Temple Grandin, you know, would fix random things on spacecraft and airplane parts. Danny Combs And they do all of that. And then we have a welding shop that is sponsored by Miller. Danny Combs So it has 6 booths that are state-of-the-art prototypes for Miller, which is one of the most incredible, largest welding organizations in the country, if not the world. Danny Combs With, you know, giant CNC plasma tables and all kinds of stuff, and then into the carpentry shop. It's all, you know, covered in Beetle Kill and OSB and set up with all these different stations. Danny Combs Nothing’s watered down. Danny Combs You see table saws, sanders, bandsaws lathes. Danny Combs Everything that a neurotypical would do. Danny Combs Let's set up a change in the environment to help our clients be successful.  Lots of natural lighting. Not a single fluorescent bulb. Danny Combs Everything is an LED. Danny Combs Everything is laid out labeled with graphs and charts and skeleton boards, and all of these different things that would be set up to help, you know, visual learners as well as learners that like to read. Danny Combs And it's pretty powerful and there's an electronic section that for electrical that has everything from EVs to commercial and electrical residential that we're working on a culinary space.  We're putting in Danny Combs about a $1 million culinary commercial kitchen. Danny Combs And then there's, you know, boardrooms and meeting rooms and all that kind of stuff. Danny Combs The amazing thing is when you walk in, it feels like the whole. Danny Combs Building just has Danny Combs Soul in the sense that even the lobby has a black and white checkerboard floor with beetle kill and, you know, fun vintage mini Coopers turning into furniture and. Danny Combs A wall full of all of the graduates that we've gotten placed into jobs and awards and news articles, and all of those things that help celebrate our community. Danny Combs We want them to see that we're celebrating them all the time and all of their achievements. Danny Combs And how they’re the pioneers that are kind of reframing what's possible for autistic individuals in employment. Johnandrew Slominski That's a pretty incredible setup. Johnandrew Slominski I mean, you're talking about industry-standard, high quality equipment for your students to learn on. Johnandrew Slominski And I have to imagine that the variety alone gives students a lot of agency in discovering new things that they may be interested in, but not even know about before arriving at TACT. Danny Combs It's pretty. Danny Combs So, the thing that I'm most proud of attacked is it creates that equality of opportunity that they get to choose their own career. When you go to a lot of organizations that are well meaning government organizations, they don't really have the resources to give somebody the choice of where they want to work. Danny Combs It's traditionally been approached from a charity perspective, where it's. Hey, here's. Danny Combs An organization that’s “willing” to hire from our community, and I've got clients that are looking for work, and they pair them together, right? Danny Combs So the strengths aren't being utilized. Danny Combs Talents not being utilized. Danny Combs The preference isn't being utilized, it's merely just they have a job here. Somebody you know, body in a room kind of thing. Danny Combs No one learns from that. Danny Combs So at TACT when we're going through our training first, it's competency based. So some of our clients are with us six months and others are with us here three years, it depends on how long and then you're right. We do look at graduation as. Danny Combs That's. Danny Combs We view graduation is that they've graduated into a job. Danny Combs And after they had that training to their strengths, those jobs look like a variety of different things. We have students that are literally lube techs at Toyota dealerships, Subaru dealerships. Danny Combs Jeep dealerships, Dodge dealerships. Danny Combs We have some that just work in the warehouse. Danny Combs If that’s what they choose to. Danny Combs They're the parts person that's helping either stock shelves or they could be the customer service person. Danny Combs We have some that are welding giant still buildings. We have some that are welding widgets and like when I say widgets, I mean little things that are, you know, working in factory lines. Danny Combs Over and over and over, type. Danny Combs Again, because there's a lot of automation and they're running some of those machines.  We have some that are running forklifts and warehouses. We have some that are literally designing restrooms, bathrooms, kitchens, all kinds of different things for flooring companies where they're laying out all of the tile, using the skills they've learned. Danny Combs We have some working in cybersecurity for banking. Danny Combs We have a great partnership with the local university called Metro State University where they get their Tier 1 stock certification. Danny Combs Then they're doing a project called Project Pisces where they're keeping the rural parts of the state safe. Danny Combs Where municipalities and school districts and power plants, they funnel all of that cybersecurity to the university. Intact clients are very involved with that, according to the Attorney General. Danny Combs Could just be, you know, reelection thing. But he released a report saying that tech clients helped keep 433,000 Danny Combs Coloradans safe from cybersecurity. Danny Combs Pretty awesome. Danny Combs And they work. Danny Combs Those organizations that are doing that. Danny Combs Then we have some that you know, despite going through our program, they want to work at a coffee house or they want to work at a grocery store. Danny Combs And if that’s what they want to do? Danny Combs Awesome. We’ll find a way to do that, but they get the real choice to choose what Danny Combs that looks like for them at that point. Johnandrew Slominski You've mentioned that your experience as a parent has had a big impact on how TACT focuses on students’ strengths rather than deficits. Johnandrew Slominski On a practical level, how does that work? Johnandrew Slominski Do you have a process for identifying? Johnandrew Slominski And what about students who may have needs for a wide range of support? Danny Combs Those are all great questions. Danny Combs So, it’s multilayered. So the way that we've taken the, the steps that we've taken, I should say to really get this sequenced is a long term game. Danny Combs We recognize that you know the whole model for our community. Danny Combs Really doesn't exist, so it's definitely going to take a long time to take decades to get it where we really need it to be. Danny Combs And so, what we start with is we have camps and workshops that are really just designed for exposure, exploration, discovery and immediate success, meaning that these don't take much time. Danny Combs They're pop in, you know, low commitment opportunities for individuals to get the, you know, chance to actually experience what it's like to work within the trades. Danny Combs We do that because neurotypical comprehensive high schools or training programs usually don't welcome our community into them, or if they do, they're given an iPad and said, sit in the corner kind of thing. Danny Combs Most organizations that are, you know, big trade organizations struggle when they have 60 individuals in a class. Danny Combs Oh my gosh. How do you put 60 individuals on, you know, in an auto garage? Danny Combs That’s 32 bays and handful of them autistic with one teacher. Danny Combs They don't know what to do and so they don't give our community the opportunity to really explore it. Danny Combs So we start there. Danny Combs And then we let them Danny Combs Guide what their interests are and I say low commitment because if they try a welding class and they didn't like it, let's try a carpentry class. Danny Combs Try an auto class. Danny Combs Let's try an electrical class. Danny Combs Try an HVAC class. Danny Combs Let's look at all of those different opportunities and try them until you find the one that actually makes you happy. Danny Combs Then, once we, you know, are guided by that individual from that perspective, then we start really taking data and we're looking at you know, what is their frustration tolerance, what's their executive functioning, what are their fine motor, their gross motor, their socialization, all these different things. Danny Combs You need math. You need socialization. Danny Combs It’s kinesthetic.  You need those communication skills. You need problem solving skills. Danny Combs And so we document all of that. Danny Combs Then, as we're practicing the trades, once we've looked at where then we work with that individual, then we have our career tracks program that's Monday through Friday. All of a sudden a lot more intensive. Then they're coming in and they're getting. Danny Combs That hands on, day after day after day, comprehensive- Danny Combs based education and training towards employment. Danny Combs Once they develop that skill and they've met those competencies, then we start putting together portfolios. We start working on finding the right employer setting.  Because we have such a big database of employers, we're able to figure out which employer, I mean, like a headhunter in a lot of ways, Danny Combs which employer is going to be the best one suited for that client to be successful, and then we have a team of Danny Combs job coaches and specialists that go out support them once they've placed into that job. Danny Combs While there's lots of lovely websites and apps that do amazing things, we haven't found any replacement for having a physical body in the room that is that persons go to that just... It's not cost effective. Danny Combs It's terribly expensive. Danny Combs It's terribly time-consuming. Danny Combs It's not efficient, but it works because it helps those individuals have the support that they need. Danny Combs And so, if you're looking at it from a business perspective on paper, you're like, man, that is not the way to do it for profit. Danny Combs But if you're looking at it from the human, you know, social capital perspective, it's 100% the way to do it. Danny Combs And so, it's a tradeoff. Danny Combs But we find that, you know, we're more invested in that individual in the community than what necessarily works on paper. Johnandrew Slominski So, TACT has gone from a pickup truck to a 19,000 square-foot facility and I'm wondering about some of the barriers or growing pains you've experienced, either practically or maybe even philosophically as you've grown. Johnandrew Slominski In a way, your proposition seems risky. Johnandrew Slominski You're disrupting a narrative about neurodiversity and employability and you're doing it with welding torches and pneumatic tools in hand. Danny Combs We could talk about that all day. Danny Combs There's so many things with that question.  You know, when TACT first started, we were turned down for insurance 13 times and we had great insurance broker that really worked hard.  And we still pay quite a bit in insurance. Danny Combs It's a lot to do what we do. Danny Combs Insurance agents were not happy about the idea of autistic individuals. Danny Combs There was, I feel like a prejudice that existed at that time. Danny Combs That, you know, they were afraid of what the liability would look like.  When we started, too, we would go to other nonprofit special education schools, government agencies that work with autistic individuals and tell them what we do. Danny Combs They looked at us like we were crazy. Danny Combs I mean, you should have seen the faces, you know, we started in the pickup truck driving to the first school and starting to unload power tools. And, you know, all these different things. Danny Combs Their eyes got so big. Danny Combs Where they were like, Oh my gosh. Danny Combs This is scary. Johnandrew Slominski Mmhmm. Danny Combs And the nature of when you trust an individual with those tools and you teach them how to safely use them. Danny Combs You know, our community stereotypically are rule followers. And when you show them how to use the tool safely, I swear if there was ever a way to, like, physically measure excitement in the room, you can see it on their face like they are... Danny Combs It's just so overwhelming that they are beaming with joy. Danny Combs I mean, every ounce of their body and they’re like excited about it and they feel trusted and we have students that have come to us in the past that have all kind of service plans for saying that their line of sight or, Danny Combs You know, if they work with Medicaid and they use the SIS level that are the SIS levels, you know 5, 6, 7, which usually means, you know, needing more support or more “highly impacted.” Danny Combs These clients, they do amazing. Danny Combs I mean they absolutely can crush it, but it's crossing that threshold in that line and be like, yes, I'm trusting you to do this and showing them how to do it safely and successfully. And that's what I mean with our camps. Danny Combs Where we set them up with projects for success. Danny Combs It's very easy to design a woodworking project where somebody is going to be successful at it. Danny Combs It's not like we're giving them a log and saying, here's a mill, go mill this log and then make something.  We can do all kinds of things where they can put things together at first. Danny Combs To get excited about wow, I can do this. I can achieve this and then as they get better at it, Danny Combs Then yes. Danny Combs That level of, you know, complexity increases with it. Danny Combs And then we teach them more and more challenging things. Danny Combs But it's no different than any way anybody else has ever been taught in that just we're showing it to our community. Danny Combs I think what that does socially, Danny Combs and for the community at large is that it’s showing that, you know, our community, by and large has so far played it safe for a variety of different reasons. I mean, even after all of this time, TACT has been going at it since 2016. Danny Combs No one’s copied us yet. Danny Combs Why? Because like I keep waiting for the day where I'm going to, like, read an article and be like, you know. Danny Combs New autism trade programs set up in name the state. Danny Combs I haven't seen it yet.  And, like, I got to do a presentation at the White House a couple years ago or last year, and the Department of Labor was at the at this presentation, they're like, we looked it up in our database. Danny Combs There’s nothing else like this. Danny Combs And it's like, when you're hearing that from the National Department of Labor. Danny Combs Oh my gosh.  Why? Danny Combs Like why is no one doing this still? Danny Combs And so it's it's interesting where, Danny Combs despite that I think we're showcasing success. We have an 83.3% job placement rate, whereas our state’s average of 12.2. Danny Combs I mean. Danny Combs We’re dramatically ahead of the curve, getting these individuals placed into high paying jobs with an average starting, you know, salary of $19.86. Danny Combs We have some of our tech students that are going out of the gate at 80k a year. Danny Combs It's a lot of money. Danny Combs That are doing amazing things. Danny Combs There's still a resistance for parents, you know, that are afraid that they're going to lose their Social Security insurance. You know, getting back on that. Danny Combs Benefits counseling—what does that look like? For the, you know, individuals for a lot of families that use waiver services of some kind know that it can take Danny Combs years, if not decades, because there's almost, OK. I finally just got on it. Danny Combs Do I really want to get off of it? Danny Combs It opens up all kinds of narrative and dialogue of what do we really want for our community. Danny Combs Do we really believe as a society, Danny Combs You know holistically, wholly, that we can, Danny Combs you know that our community is Danny Combs capable of doing this. Danny Combs It opens up all kinds of narratives. Johnandrew Slominski You know, I think one challenge that'll resonate with a lot of educators is bringing people with very different areas of expertise together to teach these skills and trades. You can have expert plumbers or carpenters say, Johnandrew Slominski who know nothing about autism, and meanwhile you have special education teachers who have expertise in autism and evidence-based practices. Johnandrew Slominski But maybe they've never turned a wrench. Johnandrew Slominski How do you make that work? Danny Combs It's a great question too. Danny Combs So at TACT we always have a six to one. Six students. We say 6 to 1. Danny Combs Really it’s a 3:1 ratio. Danny Combs We never have more than six students or clients per class and we always have a trade professional with just that, a special education professional, because you're exactly right. Danny Combs That there's these buckets of individuals that haven't worked together again, kind of like, that's where things have kind of segmented and segregated in education that we just were talking about earlier. Danny Combs So we put them together and so it's really a three to one ratio and the idea is that we at TACT, at least we started by getting a lot of older or, you know, retired trades folk that because honestly we couldn't afford, you know, young individuals either. Danny Combs Because they can make so much more money working in the trades.  And the wisdom and knowledge that came from those folks that have been in it for decades; Danny Combs you just can't replicate that. You'll never find it in YouTube. Danny Combs The stuff that our grandparents learned, like there's a lot of cool stuff on there, but at the end of the day, that knowledge they had... Danny Combs It's kind of... Danny Combs How do you how do you capture all that? Danny Combs And we put that together with a special education professional, whether it's RBT, a CODA, special Ed teacher themselves, BCBA, a therapist, or, you know, right, whatever it is we put them together. Danny Combs And we had them work together as a team and that special educator brings their knowledge and helps that, you know, trade professional look at it a different way, but it takes that teamwork. Danny Combs So we do all kinds of trainings at TACT where we work with other schools. Danny Combs And we have a mobile program that goes into currently into inner city schools. Danny Combs And we train their staff, we work with their students because we're trying to do just that. Danny Combs We're trying to teach them. The hard thing is that trades individuals are so in demand and they make so much money. Danny Combs I mean, the Wall Street Journal has had a great article come out just a couple weeks ago. Danny Combs How plumbers and electricians are the new millionaires because they make so much money, it's hard to get those individuals that want to come teach. Danny Combs Let alone come teach you know the you know, autistic individuals because they still, as a society, view as something different or more challenging or less. Danny Combs So it's taken those individuals to have the growth mindset too of starting to work together. I think, you know, there's a greater danger in the sense that our society at large over the last couple decades, has really pushed out the trades in the in favor of college. Danny Combs Mike Rowe, who's been a great supporter of our program, talks about when you look at it, they even shortened the title as years have gone by, you know it's no longer even vocational training. Now it's just VOC-ED. Danny Combs You know as it gets shortened and shortened and shortened it demeans the value of it at that point. Danny Combs But it's gonna take a complete shift. Danny Combs Know the neat thing is, Danny Combs Gen Z seems to be kind of going more trade focus, so maybe silver lining? Danny Combs I don't know. We'll see, yeah. Johnandrew Slominski Just to play devil's advocate, some people might hear what you're saying and think, well, that's wonderful for kids on the autism spectrum who maybe already have a lot of skills or high achievement levels or lots of independence. Johnandrew Slominski But what about individuals who have significant support needs? Johnandrew Slominski I think it's important to note that TACT doesn't discriminate and you teach the whole spectrum. Johnandrew Slominski I’m wondering if you could talk a little bit more about that. Danny Combs Yeah, we teach the full spectrum. And so, you know, I know it sounds a funny story, but we had a client. Danny Combs One of our favorite stories we like to tell. Danny Combs When I do my presentations in person and I'm showing, I always showcase not as tokens but just to kind of level the playing field of that story. Danny Combs Where, with those, of course, those individuals’ permission. Danny Combs All the individuals that we've gotten placed that are SIS level sixes or seven or need more support because there is the instant thought of, OK, you're exactly right. Danny Combs Doing this it's. Danny Combs That must be for the ones that don't need as much support. Danny Combs We had a client that I'd love to talk about come to us. Danny Combs He was in another autism program for four years after four weeks in our program, he could read a tape measure down to a 16th of an inch and actually use power tools. Making all of these different things. Danny Combs Four weeks vs. four years. He then got a job working with a realtor, where he was making all of these incredibly intricate gift baskets out of wood. Danny Combs I can send you pictures of some of the stuff that he did and does. Danny Combs It's incredible. Danny Combs And he used his iPad to communicate. Danny Combs In fact, I didn't know. I always like to joke but it's true that I didn’t know the FU emoji was a thing until he gave me the FU emoji on that iPad. Danny Combs When it's on an iPad, it's pretty big. Danny Combs A lovely thing to see there. Danny Combs And I think it's important to recognize that, you know, whatever verbal capacity you’re looking at it in that regards exists. Danny Combs There's all kinds of devices now that assist with that, and then one of the great things about COVID, if you can look at a great thing of COVID. Danny Combs Is that opened up the hole idea of remote work, of different working opportunities. Danny Combs We have one individual that she works for a solar company and she gets to work with remotely and she gets to use satellite images and she can look at the roof and she can calculate how many solar panels are going to go on the roof, what power needs to go into that. You know, how is it going to get laid out. Danny Combs All of those kind of things, you don't need to be in person for that kind of work. Danny Combs You don't need to be able to, you know, verbally articulate things on the phone. You can chat it. Danny Combs You can e-mail. Danny Combs You can text it. You can do all kinds of things to actually get all of those calculations across. Danny Combs And likewise, we have like in our auto shop for example, most auto shops have the lift at 15 inches. If you're in a professional auto shop, they're pretty close because they like to cram them in. Danny Combs Ours are 40. Danny Combs Even though that's a little bit further than ADA. Danny Combs Our individuals that are using wheelchairs, they can get through with the wheelchair as well. Danny Combs We like to set it up where again, that idea of universal design gives everybody more space. At that point, everybody wins from that. Danny Combs There's all kinds of different tools and things existing for everybody at this point as well. So I think it comes down to chance and I think it comes down to, you know, letting people try it. We have found that all autistic individuals could be very successful in employment. Danny Combs When they're set up for success, and given that kind of level of individualism and differentiation in their education. Danny Combs It does take more work, it just does. Danny Combs I mean, that's the reality, and it takes more training. I mean, it's not a silver bullet. What we're doing. Danny Combs It's, you know, it's not easier and we like to say that when we're practicing everything on TACT and part of the reason we say it's competency based, is some of our clients, Danny Combs It does just take a little bit more time. Danny Combs And that's OK—it doesn't need to be, you know, a magic, hey, come learn carpentry in six weeks, and now you're magically a carpenter.  Like, that whole notion for coming from a generational family of tradesfolk, Danny Combs is rather insulting to it and itself and for anybody. Danny Combs Where does that even come from? In education, it seems like a lot of educators, for those that are listening to this. Since you said a lot of educators listen, recognize that most education is shifting to competency-based education. Danny Combs Because timetable-based education doesn't make any sense anymore. Danny Combs Never really did. Danny Combs But now we're starting for people first and we can, you know, make it different. Johnandrew Slominski You've described a lot of TACT’s successes and victories over the years, but clearly it's been no easy feat. Johnandrew Slominski What are some of the challenges that you're still facing? Danny Combs There's a ton. Danny Combs So, transportation is still a really big burden for us. Danny Combs Especially in Denver, while Metro Denver is, you know, a big city, it gets country pretty quick and rural pretty quick. Danny Combs So if somebody gets an employment opportunity, especially in the trades, 5 minutes. Danny Combs Or 10 five miles, 10 miles outside of town. Danny Combs Some of our, you know, clients can't drive themselves or choose not to or rely on, you know, programs in here in Colorado we call RTD. And there's also, I think, the Uber and Lyft with RTD, where they can get rides, assisted rides cheaper. The transportation is hard. Danny Combs For sure. Danny Combs Benefits counselling. That's very, very difficult.  Getting individuals into our programs. Danny Combs That's difficult. Danny Combs As a parent, one of the things that we've always said that from the get go is we didn't want our program to be that program that serves just affluent and socially, economically, well-off families. We wanted anybody to come to it. Danny Combs What I've seen as I've traveled and I'm sure a lot of your listeners have seen when you travel the country is there is a ton of programs. Danny Combs If you’re willing to spend 65, 85, $100,000 a year. Danny Combs There’s lots of those where it's assisted living where it's transportation. Danny Combs You know, whatever it is, not everybody can swing that. Danny Combs And so it leaves families that can't. Danny Combs What do we do? Danny Combs And that's not fair. Danny Combs And so we work really hard to work with grantors. Our CLO, Becky Mershon, who's really been with us since the beginning, she really deserves more credit than me. I mean. Danny Combs She’s the behind the scenes person that makes everything work and I think with any successful organization, there's always that person. Danny Combs She’s the one here at TACT. Danny Combs And she has really busted it to get all of these foundations on board that create scholarships for us that have helped us open the doors to lots of families. Danny Combs And to set up transportation and then support them in employment in all of those different things and. Danny Combs That's been a huge, huge barrier for us. Danny Combs The getting the employers on board took a lot of time. Danny Combs That was not an overnight thing, and it took honestly a lot of parents working in organizations that were in the place to go to their boss or were just having to be the boss and just start saying yes and then demonstrated first, very, very few organizations that we Danny Combs work with do not have a family member involved. Danny Combs In some capacity, at least the first ones. Danny Combs It's since kind of grown from there. Danny Combs But it took a lot of parents stepping up too, and saying yes, this is working. Danny Combs I want to give my child a chance. Danny Combs I mean. Danny Combs You start looking at. I serve in the Air Force too. In the National Defense Authorization Act of last year, on page 2489, for your listeners that like light reading, you'll see it started the opportunity for service members to serve openly that are autistic and neurodivergent. Danny Combs And most recently, they just released an article talking about 5000 plus that have gotten in because of that. Danny Combs That's from those of us that are family members that are speaking up and saying, hey, we want our kid to have a chance too. Johnandrew Slominski At the top of the episode you shared about your son Dylan, who was a big inspiration for starting TACTback in 2016. Johnandrew Slominski How old is Dylan now? And how's he doing? Danny Combs Oh, he's adding to the gray hair, so that is for sure. Danny Combs Your viewers don’t get to see them, but man, they’ve gone gray. Danny Combs So Dylan, he's now 15. Danny Combs He's going to be 16 in January, which which is pretty amazing. Danny Combs And the amazing thing about technology is Dylan's, you know, verbal language Danny Combs He's doing really well, but he communicates exceedingly well through his iPhone through e-mail, through written word. Danny Combs I mean, he's just a really good writer. Danny Combs I would love to tell you that he's turning a wrench. Danny Combs I can't say he necessarily loves it, ironically. Danny Combs He just got his second car. His first car was a ‘77 Mercedes that I bought at a vehicle auction that does stuff for charities for 800 bucks and we got it running together. Danny Combs Sometime I have to send you the video of his face when he got that car running that had been sitting for a long, long time. Danny Combs It’s pretty powerful. Danny Combs And I wanted him to learn how to work on his own car. And then he had to learn how to sell it. And we put on Facebook, you know, and sold it. And he took the money. And now he’s got a car that he's practicing to drive now that he’s got his permit. Danny Combs But so he's learning those skills, but he's at a public school, a mountain school that has a really good autism program. Danny Combs He does still take the, you know, camps and workshops at TACT, of course, but it seems like writing is the way he feels empowered. I think for a long time his Danny Combs Speech, he wasn't able to find his words as we used to say when he was little. Danny Combs Because I mean, he writes and texts to me sometimes, especially when he's upset and he wants to know why he's upset, that it's pretty articulate, pretty powerful. Danny Combs I mean, I'm really proud of him. Johnandrew Slominski Danny, thank you so much for the conversation today. Johnandrew Slominski It's been great to learn more about TACT and the possibilities for people on the autism spectrum in the skilled trades. Johnandrew Slominski I wish you all the best. Danny Combs Thanks for sharing about TACT. Danny Combs We appreciate it. Danny Combs We've got a great team and we believe in our community and so it's exciting to see others recognizing all our community can do. Johnandrew Slominski You've been listening to my conversation with Danny Combs, founder of the nonprofit Teaching the Autism Community Trades, or TACT, in Denver, CO. Johnandrew Slominski Since our conversation in November of 2024, Danny has taken on a new role. Johnandrew Slominski He now leads the newly created Colorado Disability Opportunity Office, which is responsible for creating infrastructure and supports across state agencies to promote independence and opportunities for individuals with disabilities. Johnandrew Slominski The Autism Annex podcast was developed by STAR Autism Support. Johnandrew Slominski I'm Johnandrew Slominski. Johnandrew Slominski Thanks for listening. And until next time. Johnandrew Slominski Take good care of yourself, and one another.